Fear of "humiliating" Russia: How Italian host got stuck in Putin's head

Olexandr Zakharov

Project manager The Page, political columnist

The week was not an easy one, so on Friday I really wanted to transcribe Volodymyr Zelenskyy's interview to the Italian TV channel Rai 1. And now to speak up about the conversation itself.

Abstracts from the interview are compiled separately, and, it seems to me, given the questions of the Italian TV host, the President of Ukraine did a good job, and he covered the nuts and bolts for Rome about the prehistory of Nazism (probably, well-written speeches with references to World War II came in handy).

But appreciate the beauty of the game, sorry for the outdated quote by a pseudo-politician who is almost consigned to oblivion.

I would like to specifically emphasize that these questions were asked to the President of the warring country that the Russians not only tried to capture in three days — with a parade along Khreshchatyk and flowers from the "happy liberated" from "Nazism" Ukrainians.

They, I recall the obvious and painful, committed and continue to commit terrible atrocities in the occupied territories, including the rape of women, children, men, torture, and the Isolation prison in Donbas for those who "did not pass the filtration" of the Russian fascists.

As for me, the most hellish question was one of the first. The Italian host, talking to Zelenskyy, says:

"I know it's not easy, but try to get inside Putin's head. What could be given to Putin to allow him to save face?"

Screenshot: facebook.com/bunetsky

It is after this question that Ze advises Putin not to save face, but to save his state, and mentions Mr. Emanuel Macron’s "diplomatic pas", which did little to help him succeed in mediating between a bloodthirsty dictator who wants Ukraine's sovereignty to be surrendered rather than some kind of equal negotiations, and Kyiv.

But this is not the only interesting question. Another (and here Italy should also recall its role in the history of the 20th century) sounds even "better":

"We all know that after WWI Germany was humiliated, and out of this humiliation Nazism was born. Therefore, Macron today says that it is dangerous to humiliate the country. So what would be the way out for Russia given this?"

Seriously? Really? The President of Ukraine must answer the question of how to avoid the humiliation of Russia, which, by the way, even without sanctions and the disgust of the civilized world has a tenfold "success" in this?

It's interesting that Zelenskyy answers in some detail and even reminds the Italians that Nazism is not something that grew out of humiliation, but something that grew out of a desire to seize everything instead of earning money, as well as at the cost of condoning Hitler’s crazy ideas from within the country and with the tacit consent of Europe.

That Europe, which agreed to the Munich plot, which was playing for time and negotiated with Hitler, then with Stalin until the end of the summer of 1939, and finally said "no" to claims to foreign lands. At that time, Germany and the USSR together occupied Poland almost in parallel. Then World War II began.

And they have been doing the same with Russia since at least 2008. Not seeing somehow that there is no one to reconcile there, that it is enough looking for human values there, they were burnt long ago along with the tanks consecrated by Kirill. But they simply don’t get it neither after Georgia, nor after the Crimea and Donbas in 2014. And now, as we see, there are still certain difficulties with absorbing the material.

"Do you believe that it is possible to defeat the Russian army by military means?" the host continues. He receives an answer that with the support of the West, yes, it is possible.

Yes, you heard it right. It is possible. But, apparently, a little more understanding of the questions to those who gnaw out this victory is needed.

But this does not reassure the Italian journalist. Please appreciate the following wording, which cannot even be called a question:

"Donbas is a Ukrainian territory, and you have every right to fight for these territories, which have been occupied since 2014, but I would like to ask: were there not enough civilian casualties in Donbas?"

What exactly should the Ukrainians answer here? How exactly does the host see an end to victims and torture without the de-occupation of our lands?

Further, we find out that the Italian has interesting ideas — broad autonomy for the lands occupied by Russia, where filtration camps and a prison for "rebellious citizens" have already been created and… the independence of Crimea. Crimea, also completely occupied and controlled by Russia, where any independence is out of question at all. Just like in ORDLO.

So, although the West and Italy itself continue to actively support Ukraine, there is still some kind of ineradicable narrative in the minds of the people of Europe, including Western media specialists.

The narrative that one can just come up with semblance of any, but victory, for Putin, give him our version of the "Sudetenlands", and then the dictator, who planned to create a new multi-vector world with the Anglo-Saxons on their knees, will certainly calm down — and there will be peace.

A peace in which a large piece of Ukraine remains under occupation, people will continue to be tortured, but all this will be wrapped up in "autonomy" and "republics", and those who are too uncomfortable to look at a bloodied and destroyed country in the center of Europe will simply exhale and close their eyes. But this has already happened. And didn't end well, as February 24 showed.

A rhetorical question: exactly how much more Buchas, Borodiankas, and Mariupols have to happen for such wordings to start getting stuck in the throats of Western journalists?

So that when an 11-year-old child is raped in Ukraine, and the Deputy Foreign Minister shows his drawing of black lines at the UN Council, then the respected outlet Reuters does not write that "it could not verify Dzhaparova’s story about what happened to the boy"?

So that the respected outlet The Telegraph does not write about the "golden ladder" for Putin, which he can pass off as a victory?

I will leave these questions unanswered. Just as, to be honest, the question of the Italian host should be left unanswered, if it were not for the need to continue to convey reality to people who think that a common cross for a Ukrainian woman and a Russian woman with a tricolor bonus is not a big deal. Because the lessons of history are obviously not well learned.